William Sascha Riley interview transcription

All 4+ hours

I have transcribed all 4+ hours of the entire William Sascha Riley interview and posted it here. For those wondering why - because it makes every word searchable. Dump it all into an ai / LLM which allows every answer to be dissected and analyzed. Sh*t, it even takes what was said about DJT and lays a blueprint for impeachment, incarceration and worse.

Thanks to Lisa Noelle Voldeng for her very important and historic work. And thank you to Mr. Riley for being brave enough to come forward, unfiltered, finding your old notebooks, digging into the deepest and darkest parts of your memory for the greater good of the world. ❤️‍🩹✊🏼

PLEASE SHARE. A spotlight must be flooded upon the cockroaches…

*** TRIGGER WARNING ***
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Lisa: I’m just going to start recording and um so I just want to clarify in terms of date July 18th 2025 my full name Lisa Noelle Volding and Riley you want to state your name and any other names?

William: My name is William... I’m sorry. No go ahead. I didn’t mean to interrupt. My name is William Sasha Riley I was born Manuel Sasha Barros but my legal name is William Sasha Riley at this time.

Lisa: Okay and I’m just so we’re clear I’m based in Victoria British Columbia Canada I lived in the United States full-time for a bunch of years but I was brought up in Canada my citizenship’s Canadian.

William: We might be neighbors at some point because Canada is right now number two on the list of the countries that I am potentially going to move to.

Lisa: You know I think it’s a good place to look. There’s a lot of There’s a lot of Americans actually I’ve spoken to Americans that I’ve said is I’ve told to to come here and there’s lots of Americans that have come to visit more and it’s a lot more embracing inclusive of a culture so you know it’s quite lovely I’d recommend. In terms of what my approach really what I wanted to do is like to just really like a thorough discussion you tell me everything that that you’ve been wanting to say and I’ll ask some questions this might be one of like however many however many discussions and I’ll record them if it’s one if it’s ten.

And what I’d like to do I’m I’m sort of recording with an eye to A your testimony getting your testimony of what you experienced what abuse you suffered and what you were witness to and an eye in terms of being able to to get into a format in terms of an affidavit whether we look at getting help from the International Criminal Court because obviously what you know you and I’ve discussed already there’s definitely a whole whack of crimes that that have been getting committed by a lot of folks and is even a case where there could be crimes against humanity charges in regards to Trump so and what else I’d like to do is I’d like to look at whether whether you would be okay with you know me like transcribing and then publishing something I publish newsletters selectively I have a newsletter called Outlaws of Chivalry I publish once in a while and I was looking at perhaps publishing there if you’re okay in terms of how could help us in terms of um getting the right legal support in terms of the International War Court.

William: I am I am for whatever puts a light on this because in my mind the powers that be have are already uh aware of my position on it and aware that I have spoken up and you know the more light that is shed on there I don’t think that I’m incurring more risk except for some maybe lunatic that wants to uh be a soldier for Donald Trump because they are uh a little crazy they’re a little brainwashed but um yeah I I don’t mind whatever would bring a little bit more light to this particularly this this stuff. If if we can get some of this stuff verified you know and I know that me speaking up is one thing but then the verification process uh you know is important too and I have read about software where you know facial recognition software that that taps into the uh banks of of known uh cataloged child pornography so if the the films that they had me make can be verified uh you know it’s not something that I can go online but I am confident that it’s there.

Because somebody that I served with in the Army got put out of the Army for child pornography and my chain of command talked to me and they said hey you know some of these images some of the films or whatever that he had look just like you and that was the first time I think I had ever talked to anybody about having done those films. And I told them yes when I was a child I had to do those things.

Lisa: Yeah let’s talk a little bit of more about that circumstance. Like so you were in the Army what years were you in the Army then?

William: Um this would have been my second time in the Army I rejoined in uh let’s see 2002 and I retired in 2016 I was in uh from 91 to 98 as well so I did a little over 21 years but the time frame that uh they pulled me into the office and discussed that would have been around uh 2008 2009 time frame it was obviously it was in garrison so it was between deployments so around that time is when they talked to me. And yeah I can just remember uh I can remember telling them that that I knew it was out there there was nothing I could do about it and thinking that there was really no way to go about you know anything at that point you know I I didn’t know what I could do about it if anything.

Lisa: Yeah so it was from when our our emails the um it was one of the fellow soldiers that was caught with a bunch of child pornography and then your commanding officer pulled you into the office to go through and said they’d seen you in the films?

William: I did not look at any of the films all they said was hey we had to look at some of this stuff and one of those people looks just like you and that’s the first time that I had I think ever really spoken about it and I said yes you know those are probably me but I did not personally see them. Um but they described uh something that I knew that I had been a part of.

Lisa: Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit more?

William: Yeah here here’s what it was uh they when when I they pulled me in I can remember First Sergeant Bayless was kind of red-faced and he said have you ever made a movie with a black girl. And I and you know that obviously was I mean I’m not a movie star so obviously that’s a very odd question and I knew exactly what he was talking about when he said that. So I said yes. So he said okay well we have found some images that are of a sexually explicit nature on another soldier’s uh computer I think um and they look like you. And I said well they are me. So he said and you look under age I think from that uh was part of their investigation to confirm that the images of the uh the participants in these films were under age. So you know that was just a a secondary verification that uh yeah I was only 12 or 13 at the time of that film maybe maybe even 11 so I mean obviously I’m not an adult and even when I was an adult at 18 or 19 I still looked young so obviously at uh 11 12 of what whatever I was in that film I would not have looked like a uh a mature uh an adult you know?

So it was more I think for confirmation that these images were of children. So uh I don’t remember if he actually got court-martialed or if he just got uh UCMJ which is just their lower grade of uh punishment but I do know that he was chaptered out of the military over it and I think he might have had to do a little jail time but I don’t I don’t recall. I can’t even recall the soldier’s name that got caught with it I just knew he was a an NCO a Staff Sergeant.

Lisa: And was there any did anyone else ever talk to you about the the films again did they ever talk did they ever infer that there was any further investigation in terms to when the films were produced did they ask you anything about who was involved or did they?

William: No. No. Uh they they didn’t they didn’t go into any legality other than uh the prosecution of the soldier with the images. So in the military is a little bit different than than civilian uh you know I don’t want to call it the court system because it’s just the the the officers and NCOs in the military but they they have their you know sphere of influence they have their little scope of operation and and if they uncover more I think that they are in required to give it to the civilian authorities but they don’t have any jurisdiction to go further than to just prosecute the soldier for the infraction that he is guilty of if that makes sense the way I’m saying it.

Lisa: No I understand. Do they have any duty or any is there any legality are do they have legal requirements to to inform civilian prosecutors of such cases?

William: Yes. Yes if if they suspect or uh I if if there is additional wrongdoing that is outside of their scope of of of being able to prosecute and in this case to to hold the individual soldier accountable for having this material that he’s not supposed to have uh they prosecute that portion of it if it is beyond what they can prosecute then they refer the soldier to civilian court systems um but in this case the military did uh handle the uh uh the prosecution of the soldier and I I think all he got was like 30 days uh and reduction in rank to E1 they kicked him out of the Army gave him a uh less than honorable discharge I think I don’t think he even got a bad conduct for that but uh it you know I know that he was put out of the military and I think he did the 30 days in jail I think is the most that they can give you at the uh um at that at the level that they that they prosecuted him at. So um I don’t I’m I’m not saying that that uh you know for sure on the on the jail time but I do know for a fact he was put out of the military.

Lisa: So they they they had films they had some of those films.

William: What was his name? Yes. Habel. That was his last name H-A-B-E-L I think Staff Sergeant Habel I just remembered it. Because I could picture his face and I just couldn’t remember his name.

Lisa: Habel. Okay H-A-B-E-L.

William: Yes I’m relatively certain on that name. I don’t have the best memory I was in a blast in Iraq and one of the things that I struggle with vitally are names. But I am I’m fairly sure that’s his name.

Lisa: Okay. Okay. And in terms of the films they had so so there was obviously a collection of pornography. Any is there anyone you were in contact with of those your commanding officers that would they talk to you? Would they provide evidence or is it a situation where?

William: Michael Michael Bayless is the only one that I remember speaking to about it. I have not spoken to him since I left Fort Carson in 2011. Um I would think that he would probably remember something like that just just the unusualness of it you know First Sergeant’s deal with things day in and day out but I would I would think that he would remember that just because of how it’s not every day that you have to deal with something like that you know? Um but it it is possible. Uh I think my commanding officer’s name at that time was Captain Colasanto but I’m not sure because you get commanding officers come and go you know the First Sergeants uh they they tend to stick around longer but commanding officers are a lot of times they’re only there for a year or two and then they’re off to the next thing. So my recollection of the commanding officer may not be accurate.

Lisa: What’s the the spelling of his last name Colasanto?

William: Uh Colasanto C-O-L-A-S-A-N-T-O.

Lisa: Saint Cola.

William: Yeah.

Lisa: Okay. Is there anything else you think would be helpful to to talk about right now about then the time frame that was the first time anyone had ever mentioned to you anything about the films other than when you were involved in filming? Is that accurate?

William: Yes. Yes. The first time that I can recall anybody that it ever coming up. I always knew that they were um you know that the films at at least one or two of them were out there. I don’t even know how many times I was filmed. Um but I can tell you that that some of them are are extraordinarily horrible. I can give you one instance where they were filming us it was me and a girl that I knew uh that I had been trafficked with in other venues and while we were filming uh they came in and shot her in the head. So killed her obviously. So that would be uh...

Lisa: Was that the runaway?

William: That was another girl and I can’t even remember her name. The the runaway was tortured to death.

Lisa: Okay. And the runaway... do you know her name?

William: No. I don’t. I don’t know her name. We... we weren’t allowed to really speak to each other. You know? It was... it was very compartmentalized. You were brought in, you did what you were supposed to do, and you were taken out. And if you... if you tried to fraternize or talk to anybody else, you were punished.

Lisa: And where... where did these events take place? Was this in the States? Was this abroad?

William: These specific events were in the States. Uh... the one where the girl was shot in the head was in... I believe it was in New York. Upstate New York. It was a... like a big estate. Very old house. Wood paneling. Big fireplaces. It looked like... it looked like a hunting lodge almost. But it was... it was a private residence.

And the... the other one with the runaway... that was... that was in California. It was near... it was near the Presidio. I remember because we drove past it. And it was... it was a warehouse district. It wasn’t a house. It was like a... an industrial area. And they had... they had set up like a... almost like a stage. You know? Like a movie set.

Lisa: And you said... you said “they.” Who... who are “they”? Who were the people running this?

William: The handlers. The... the people that... that moved us around. I didn’t know their names. We... we called them... we had nicknames for them. But we didn’t know their real names. There was... there was one guy we called “The Doctor.” He wasn’t a doctor. But he... he liked to... he liked to inflict pain. So we called him The Doctor.

And there was... there was a woman. She was... she was older. Maybe in her 50s. She... she seemed to be in charge of the... the logistics. You know? Getting us from point A to point B. Feeding us. That kind of thing. But she was... she was just as cruel as the men. She... she would... if you complained, she would... she would beat you.

Lisa: And this... this happened when you were... how old were you when these specific events happened?

William: I was... I want to say I was around 12. Maybe 13. It’s... it’s hard to pin down exactly because... you know, time... time gets fuzzy when you’re... when you’re in that environment. You don’t... you don’t really know what day it is. You don’t know... you know, weeks can go by and you don’t even realize it. But I... I think I was around 12 or 13.

Lisa: And how did you... how did you get from... I mean, you were in the military later. How did you get from that environment to... to joining the military?

William: Well, I... I was... I was eventually... I was returned to my parents. My... my father was... he was involved. He was... he was the one that... that sold me into it. So... they... they would take me for... for periods of time. Sometimes a weekend. Sometimes a week. Sometimes a month. And then they would... they would bring me back. And I would go back to school like nothing happened.

And... you know, I... I couldn’t tell anybody. Because they told me... they told me if I told anybody, they would kill my family. They would kill my... my little sister. So I... I kept my mouth shut. And I... I just tried to survive. And then when I turned 18... I... I joined the Army to get away. I thought... I thought if I joined the Army, I would be safe. I thought... I thought they couldn’t get to me there. But I was wrong.

Lisa: You were wrong because... because of the incident at Fort Carson? Or were there other... were there other incidents in the military?

William: Both. Both. The... the incident at Fort Carson was... that was just the... the confirmation that... that it followed me. But there were... there were other things. There were... you know, officers that... that knew things they shouldn’t know. Or... or situations I was put in that... that were very suspicious.

I remember one time... I was in... I was in Germany. And... I was... I was ordered to go to this... this party. It was a... it was an off-base party. For officers. And I was... I was enlisted. I shouldn’t have been there. But my... my commander told me to go. He said... he said, “They requested you.” And I... I went. And it was... it was the same kind of people. The same... the same vibe. You know? The... the entitlement. The... the way they looked at you. Like you were... like you were meat.

And I... I left. I just... I turned around and walked out. And I... I expected to get in trouble. I expected to get... you know, court-martialed for disobeying an order. But nothing happened. Nobody ever said a word about it. It was like... it was like it never happened.

Lisa: That’s... that’s incredible. So you think... you think there’s a network? A network that... that spans... not just the civilian world but the military as well?

William: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s... it’s all connected. It’s... it’s the same people. Or... or at least the same... the same organization. The same... I don’t know what you want to call it. The... the cabal. Whatever. It’s... it’s the people with power. The people with money. They... they protect each other. And they... they use people like me... people like us... for their... for their amusement. And... and for profit. You know? It’s... it’s a business. It’s a huge business.

Lisa: And you mentioned... earlier you mentioned Trump. And... crimes against humanity. How does... how does he fit into this? In your... in your experience? Or... or what you’ve seen?

William: Well... I... I never saw him personally. I never... I never met him. But... I heard his name. I heard his name mentioned. By... by the handlers. By... by the people at the parties. They would... they would talk about him. Like he was... like he was one of them. Or... or at least... associated with them.

And... you know, the... the things he’s done... the... the policies... the... the way he talks... it’s... it’s the same language. It’s the same... disregard for human life. The same... arrogance. I... I truly believe he’s... he’s involved. Or... or at the very least, he knows about it. And he’s... he’s done nothing to stop it. He’s... he’s enabled it.

Lisa: Right. Right. Okay. I want to... I want to go back to the... the films for a second. The ones that... that were found at Fort Carson. You said... you said there were images of a sexually explicit nature. And... and you said one of them looked like you. Did they... did they show you the actual... did you see the image? Or did they just describe it to you?

William: They... they showed me a still. A printed... a printed picture. It was... it was grainy. It was black and white. But it was... it was definitely me. I recognized... I recognized the... the room. I recognized the... the bedspread. It was... it was a hotel room. I remember that... that specific time. Because... because I got sick afterwards. I got... I got really sick. I think they... I think they drugged me.

But yeah, I... I saw the picture. And... it was... it was hard to look at. You know? It was... it was me. But it was... it was like looking at a... a ghost. A ghost of... of a dead child. Because that... that child is dead. You know? I... I’m not that person anymore. But... but I carry... I carry the scars.

Lisa: I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry you had to go through that.

William: It’s... it’s okay. I mean... it’s not okay. But... I’m still here. You know? I’m still... I’m still breathing. And... and as long as I’m breathing, I’m going to... I’m going to fight. I’m going to... I’m going to try to expose them. Because... because they can’t... they can’t keep getting away with it. They just can’t.

Lisa: And that’s... that’s why we’re doing this. That’s why... that’s why we’re documenting this. To... to build that case. To... to find that justice.

William: Exactly. Exactly.

William: and it was kind of a punishment type of thing where he was gonna get to assault me and I guess not pay my parents and he got to do whatever he wanted. And I can remember telling me they... I wasn’t allowed to fight back or they’d kill me. And, you know, all of this... but they must have said his name 50 times in the car. So, “Biggs”... kept... I kept hearing “Biggs, Andy Biggs, Biggs”... and I thought “I’m going to remember this name.”

And after he assaulted me, I don’t even remember the assault necessarily, but I remember being in the car afterwards and being like really nauseous, sick to my stomach. I was seeing spots and, I mean... the guy beat me until I had broken ribs and was convulsing, turning blue and stuff like that. And I can... the only part of that assault that I can remember is laying on the floor of the room trying to breathe, and I could hear Andy and my dad screaming back and forth at each other.

And I can remember Andy Biggs saying “You said I could do whatever I wanted.” And my dad saying “I didn’t say you could fucking kill him.” And, you know, I think they may have actually thrown blows over it, but there was a heated argument and everything going on for an extended period of time, and then I can remember being in the car leaving and just having my eyes closed because my head was spinning and everything, and I was just trying to breathe, just in and out, you know? So that’s why I remember him so clearly.

I have had more than one encounter with Trump, and that’s why I tried to kill that son of a bitch, because he is a fucking monster. It’s why I have not shut up about just how absolutely abhorrent he is as a human being, and it’s why I tried to... that’s why I tried to kill him. Because I had decided... I had already seen enough other people die that in my mind I thought, “Well, they’re just going to kill me too at some point,” right? Uh... you know, I’m not going to survive to be an adult from this. So, in my mind, he was the biggest pile of shit that I had ever had to have any contact with, so I was gonna take him with me.

Lisa: How often did Trump assault you? Do you remember?

William: I can remember two specifically. A third one that I think... and I think I was around him more than just those three times, but only three times do I kind of remember. I can remember at one point him asking the people that were kind of running that party, or whatever it was at that farm... um... he wanted to kill somebody. He wanted to... he wanted to murder somebody. And they said, “Hey, that’s not this kind of party. You can’t do that.”

And... uh... they said “In lieu of doing that...” they said “Well, we’ve got some puppies if you just want to kill something. But we’ve got to get rid of them anyway.” So I can remember him taking those puppies one by one and... like he snapped one of the puppies’ necks. He cut one open and let it just howl and writhe in pain while it died. Held one under some water to kill it. Uh... he... he... he wanted to... hurt... kill those puppies and... in whatever gruesome way, you know, to... to experience I guess seeing them suffer in different ways.

What his kink is, I guess if you want to call it that, is watching people suffer. He likes to destroy people physically, mentally, during the process of the assault. That’s why he stands out so much in my memory. You know, and it’s... it’s physical pain and then it’s... it’s also... you know, degrading and all of that. But his thing was to just try to destroy human beings to the utmost that he could possibly do it. Which is why I attacked him.

Lisa: Yeah. That’s understandable. So, um...

William: I can tell you this. That the last one... I... and... okay, so this was after they had killed the... Samantha. That was the black girl that I made the... one of the movies with.

Lisa: And these were... let me just ask a question just to clarify. So when Samantha was killed, these were... were all of these parties at the farm? Or similar locations to the farm? Where there was...

William: It was multiple farms.

Lisa: Multiple farms. And usually it was parties. So there was individuals like Trump that were flown in to the parties? And then...

William: Yes. And they would have like a building... you know, a house... and they would usually have like a tent set up and... uh... you know... it was almost like a little... I don’t want to say a fair, it wasn’t that big, they didn’t have rides or anything, but there was... it was a kind of a coordinated deal, you know?

Um... sometimes they would have the bare-knuckle fighting. That’s probably how my dad got involved with these people because... uh... you know, you got boxing and stuff like that on TV, but that’s really all you had back in the 70s and 80s. The... you know, more the MMA type of stuff wasn’t allowed. And these fights were a little more gruesome. They didn’t... they didn’t fight to the death or anything like that, but they were... they were bloody and... you know, I mean these were... these were fights, you know, and not just boxing. So the rich people would pay to see that. Sometimes they’d have like a band playing... uh... you know... just like what you would expect at like a fair or something, you know?

Lisa: So the rich folks would get flown in, associated with Epstein, and they would pay to watch the victims fight? The victims were all under age? And would they pay to then assault the victims after the fights? Or during the fights? And they’d pay to torture the victims? And rape the victims? And kill the victims?

William: Yes. Yes. But now... now some of the fights were adults. You know, so if they had some big ol’ country boy and some other guy, they would pay to see that. They would also pay to watch the kids fight. And they did pay to watch me fight. I would fight other kids. And my dad was... was my initial trainer for me to learn how to fight. I would later go on to be a boxer, an amateur boxer. But that’s how I got my start in all of that. So yes, they would pay for that.

Um... and the experiences were different each time. There wasn’t like a set thing. You never really knew what was gonna happen. So... um... you know... a part of it... a lot of it just comes down to money, you know? So if they offered five thousand dollars to have sex with me, then... then... you know... my dad was willing to do that. You know, whatever the dollar amounts were, I don’t know.

Lisa: Sasha, that isn’t... that isn’t sex. That’s... that’s sexual assault. Right. I mean, I just want to say something first. I think you’re extremely brave. And you behave extremely strong. Like a warrior. And I just want to stop and say it’s important to me to say that because a lot of folks, you know, wouldn’t even survive such trauma. But you’ve... you’ve survived and you... you know, you conduct yourself with... with dignity and... and gracefully. And... and I... it’s important to me to say that. I hope you know that, you know? I hope you have a sense of your... your own honor and chivalrousness. Especially what you told me in terms of drugs they used on you and how they lured you... drugged... to... to behave monstrous towards other kids. You know, I understand the context.

William: I can remember... I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt, but I can remember some... some arm of law enforcement showing me video of me harming one of the people that they were filming me with. Now I don’t know how that came about... um... whether they drugged me and I lost my mind, or they told me to do it. I don’t... I don’t know the circumstances. But I can remember being in that room and them saying “Well, you did this.” And... and it might have not even been law enforcement. It may have been, you know, like the people that were running that. But I can remember being really upset because I had no recollection of having done that. It was me in the video... and I was beating somebody... well, a girl, senseless. And... uh... I didn’t kill her or anything like that, but... I... you know...

Lisa: Yeah. And I have a feeling...

William: You know... this part I can’t prove because I... you know, I have... I only have my own experiences. But what the whole thing seems to be is that they first abuse you. Then they get you on film abusing others. And now they have you trapped as well.

Lisa: Yeah. No, and you know what? You’re exactly right. That’s exactly the tactic. And it’s... the tactic is insidious because... um... have you ever heard of the... the torture technique a lot of... occult practitioners use? It’s called... uh... inversion... inversion torture. Inversion magic. Isn’t magic... sorcery is just smoke and mirrors nonsense... deception techniques. But it’s sort of an inversion technique where to try to linguistically manipulate the victims to try to get the victims in a position where the victims doubt... where the victims... you know... are good or not. That’s...

William: Oh absolutely. Absolutely.

Lisa: And I think that’s the case with a lot of the Republicans you mentioned. Like you said Clarence Thomas and Lindsay Graham were at these parties. You can’t remember if Lindsay Graham and Clarence Thomas participated? And it’s sort of a question of did they participate? Were they blackmailed because they were there, attended the parties, but they didn’t participate? Can you tell me much more about Clarence Thomas and Lindsay Graham?

William: I... I know the least about him. The only reason that I can remember him is because he was a black man. And the... uh... I’m sorry, but that... that club is... is pretty much just white folks. So having a black person there... uh... was very unusual. So he stood out. But the only thing that I can really say is that I remembered him being there. And then I remember what a big deal it was in our household when he got confirmed onto the Supreme Court. Uh... because my dad was excited about that because of how high up he was.

Now... I don’t... I can’t swear... I may have been assaulted by Clarence Thomas. But I cannot swear to that. Um... if he did assault me, then it was not to the level of something that scared me to the point where I needed to remember it. If that’s a good way to put that. Which... Trump rose to that. And Andy Biggs rose to that. And Jim Jordan rose to that because he was dangerous to me because I could keep most people away from me with my fists. But... you know... he was a good wrestler. So... you know... he scared me in that sense that this is a person that I can’t... you know... that I can’t keep away from me with my... with my fists.

Um... Lindsay Graham? I am fairly sure he has assaulted me. But I just can’t put my hand on a Bible and swear to that. You know? I know that he was there. I can remember it... he... he... just like... Jim Jordan, he has... uh... very distinct mannerisms. And his voice is a little unusual as well. So I could remember his voice, I could remember his mannerisms, and then obviously how he looks. Um... so I can put him there. But I just can’t... I can’t say he did this or he did that exactly. I just can’t.

Lisa: Okay. So...

William: I wish that I could provide more information on that because I... I think some things went on, but that’s just not enough for me to point... uh... a finger and make an accusation. But he was there. I can tell you that.

Lisa: Yeah. Well that’s... that’s... that’s enough. And I know that... you know... some sorts of interviews there’s... we can look at at a different time to see if there is any more information you remember. But what you do remember, I just want you to know, what you remember to know... that... what you remember is extremely important. And is extremely helpful. I know you want to be able to remember more. And the memories are in there. And... you know... I just want to approach the situation delicately cause... you know... you’ve been through a lot.

William: But my other memories are... are... are just vague. You know I can... and... and... and I... I have been very careful too not to... to... to reach out further. Because there are some other names that I could... I could mention that I believe were there, that I know for a fact that my parents talked about... but I don’t have a clear enough recollection of anything.

Like, I can tell you 100% sure that they talked about Vladimir Putin. But I do not believe he was ever at one of those parties that I was at. But his name was... uh... brought up more than once.

Lisa: During the 1980s?

William: Yes.

Lisa: Okay.

William: Vladimir Putin. I don’t... I don’t know even when he ascended to the presidency, but I remember the name because it was so unusual. Now... at that point he may have just been, you know, one of the Russian oligarchs or whatever. But his name came up. And... and I remember it just because it’s an unusual name. Vladimir Putin. You know? Um... but I don’t believe he was ever there. So that is like... I don’t know, it’s... there are other names like that.

Lisa: There are other names like that? That you recall hearing?

William: Yes. There was... uh... Kissinger. Henry Kissinger. His name was mentioned with... with a lot of reverence. Like he was... like he was one of the architects. But again, I never saw him. I never saw him personally.

But I did see... uh... I did see some people that were... that were in the entertainment industry. Uh... I don’t know if I should say their names because... you know... I don’t have... I don’t have the proof. But I saw them. I saw them at the parties.

Lisa: You can say their names. This is... this is your testimony. You say what you saw.

William: Okay. Well... I saw... I saw a guy that looked exactly like... uh... what’s his name... the guy from... from the movies... uh... Kevin Spacey. I saw him. He was... he was young then. Or younger. But it was him. And he was... he was very comfortable there. He was... he was mingling. He was laughing.

And there was another guy... a comedian. Uh... I can’t remember his name right now. But he was... he was very famous in the 80s. And he was there too. So it wasn’t just... it wasn’t just politicians. It was... it was Hollywood people too. It was... it was a mix.

Lisa: And were they participating? Or were they just attending?

William: They were watching. They were watching the fights. They were watching the... the other stuff. I didn’t see them... personally... do anything to the kids. But they were... they were enjoying the show. You know? They were... they were part of the... the audience. And that... that makes them complicit in my book.

Lisa: Absolutely. Absolutely it does. I want to shift gears a little bit. You mentioned... earlier you mentioned “programming.” Can you explain what you mean by that?

William: Yeah. The programming. That’s... that’s how they control you. That’s how they... they make you do things that you wouldn’t normally do. It’s... it’s a combination of... of torture and... and hypnosis. And drugs.

They... they would take us to... to rooms. White rooms. Bright lights. And they would... they would keep us awake for days. Days at a time. And they would play... they would play these sounds. These... these frequencies. High pitched. Low pitched. It felt like your... your brain was vibrating.

And while they did that... they would show us images. Images of... of violence. Images of... of sex. Images of... of death. Over and over and over again. Until... until you couldn’t tell the difference between... between reality and... and the pictures.

And they would give us... they would give us commands. “When you hear this word, you do this.” “When you see this symbol, you do that.” And if you... if you didn’t do it... they would shock you. They had these... these cattle prods. And they would shock you until you... until you complied.

Lisa: That sounds... that sounds like MKUltra. That sounds like...

William: It is. It is MKUltra. Or... or a version of it. I don’t know if they called it that. But that’s what it was. It was... it was mind control. Plain and simple. They wanted to create... they wanted to create slaves. Slaves that would... that would kill on command. Slaves that would... that would be sex toys on command. And... and then forget about it.

That’s... that’s the key. The forgetting. They... they wanted to fracture your mind. So that... so that you had these... these different personalities. These different “alters.” And... and one alter would do the... the dirty work. And then... and then the... the host... the... the main personality... wouldn’t remember a thing.

Lisa: And do you... do you feel like you have these alters? Do you feel like... like that happened to you?

William: I know it did. I know it did. Because... because I have lost time. Huge chunks of time. Where I don’t know where I was. I don’t know what I did.

And... and sometimes... sometimes I get these... these flashbacks. These memories that... that don’t feel like mine. But they are. I see... I see myself doing things. Terrible things. Things that... that “William” would never do. But... but someone did them. And that someone was using my body.

Lisa: That must be terrifying.

William: It is. It is terrifying. It’s... it’s like living with a monster inside of you. A monster that... that they put there. And... and you never know when it’s going to... when it’s going to come out.

That’s why... that’s why I isolate myself. That’s why I don’t... I don’t like to be around people. Especially... especially children. I’m afraid. I’m afraid of what... of what might happen. Even though... even though I’ve done a lot of work. I’ve done a lot of therapy. I’ve... I’ve tried to... to integrate the parts. But... but the fear is always there.

Lisa: You said... “The Doctor.” Was he involved in this programming?

William: Yes. He was the main one. He was the one that... that oversaw it. He... he seemed to enjoy it. He seemed to enjoy breaking us. He would... he would smile. This... this cold, dead smile. While he was... while he was shocking us. Or... or cutting us.

He... he used to say... “Pain is the pathway to enlightenment.” That’s what he would say. “I’m... I’m enlightening you.”

Lisa: Do you remember his name?

William: No. We just called him The Doctor. Or Dr. Green sometimes. But I don’t think that was his real name. I think... I think that was just a... a code name. Because... because he always wore these green scrubs. Surgical scrubs. Even when... even when we weren’t in a hospital. He would wear these green scrubs.

Lisa: And the woman? The older woman you mentioned?

William: “Mother.” We had to call her Mother.

Lisa: You had to call her Mother?

William: Yes. She... she wanted us to... to see her as a mother figure. But... but a twisted one. You know? She would... she would feed us. She would... she would sometimes be nice to us. Give us candy. Or... or let us sleep.

But then... then she would turn. In a second. If you... if you spilled your milk. Or... or if you looked at her wrong. She would... she would beat you. Or... or she would give you to The Doctor. “Go see The Doctor,” she would say. “He’ll fix you.”

She was... she was confusing. Because... because sometimes you wanted to love her. Because she was the only one that showed any... any kindness. But it was... it was fake. It was... it was part of the manipulation. To make us... to make us dependent on her. To make us... bond with our captors. Stockholm syndrome. You know?

Lisa: I understand. It’s... it’s a very common tactic in... in cults and... and trafficking rings.

William: Yeah. Well... they mastered it. They... they knew exactly what they were doing. They had it down to a science.

Lisa: And this... this facility... where the programming happened... was that... was that at the farms too? Or was that somewhere else?

William: That was somewhere else. That was... that was underground. Literally underground. We... we would go down these... these long elevators. Or... or tunnels. And... and there were no windows. Obviously. Just... just concrete and... and steel.

I think... I think it might have been a military base. Or... or an old bunker. Or something like that. Because... because I remember seeing... sometimes I would see soldiers. Or... or guards in uniforms. Not... not the handlers. But... but guys guarding the doors. And they looked like... they looked like military.

Lisa: And were you... did you stay there? Did you live there?

William: No. No, we didn’t live there. We were... we were transported there. Usually at night. In... in vans. Or... or sometimes in the trunks of cars. They didn’t want us to see... they didn’t want us to see where we were going.

But I know... I know it was close to the ocean. Or... or a large body of water. Because... because I could smell it. When they... when they took us out of the vehicles. I could smell the salt air. And... and I could hear... sometimes I could hear foghorns.

So... I suspect it was... it was somewhere on the coast. Maybe... maybe California. Or... or maybe the East Coast. I don’t know for sure.

Lisa: And how did you... how did you eventually get out of that? You said you joined the Army at 18. Did the... did the programming stop then? Or...

William: It... it didn’t stop. It just... it shifted. You see... the military... the military uses the same techniques. Basic training... boot camp... it’s... it’s a form of programming. They... they break you down. They... they strip away your identity. And... and they build you back up as a soldier. A killer.

So... for me... it was... it was familiar. It was... it was familiar. It was... it was almost comforting. Because... because I knew the rules. I knew... I knew how to survive. I knew how to... how to shut off my emotions. I knew how to... how to follow orders without question.

And... and I excelled. I was... I was a good soldier. Because... because I was already trained. I was already... I was already a weapon.

Lisa: Did they... did the people who trafficked you... did they have contact with you while you were in the military?

William: Yes. Yes, they did. Like I said... the... the incident at Fort Carson. That wasn’t... that wasn’t an accident. That wasn’t... that wasn’t just a coincidence.

And... and there were other times. Times when... when I would get orders... strange orders. To go... to go to certain places. Or... or to meet certain people.

I remember... I remember one time in... in Iraq. I was... I was approached by... by these guys. They weren’t... they weren’t regular military. They were... they were contractors. Or... or Special Ops. Or something. They didn’t wear... they didn’t wear rank. And they had... they had beards.

And... and they knew me. They knew... they knew my name. They knew... they knew about “Mother.” They knew about... about the programming. And they... they tried to... they tried to activate me.

Lisa: Activate you? You mean... trigger an alter?

William: Yes. They used... they used a code word. A word that... that I hadn’t heard in years. And... and I felt it. I felt the... the switch. I felt... I felt the coldness spreading.

But... but something happened. Something... something different. I... I fought it. I don’t know how. Maybe... maybe because I was older. Maybe because... because I had seen so much... so much death already. That... that I just... I couldn’t do it anymore.

I... I pulled my weapon on them. I... I pointed my rifle right at them. And I said... I said, “Back off. Or I’ll kill you both.”

Lisa: Wow. And what did they do?

William: They laughed. They just laughed. And... and one of them said... “Good. You’re still... you’re still feisty. We like that.” And then... then they just walked away. Like... like nothing happened.

But... but after that... things got... things got weird. My... my paperwork started getting messed up. My... my pay would get lost. I... I started getting... getting assigned to... to shit details. You know? Guard duty in the middle of nowhere. Or... or cleaning latrines.

It was... it was harassment. Targeted harassment. They were... they were punishing me. For... for resisting.

Lisa: And is that... is that eventually why you left the military? Or... or why you were pushed out?

William: Yeah. Yeah, basically. I mean... I... I retired. But... but it was... it was a fight. They... they tried to take my benefits. They tried to... to give me a... a bad discharge. But... but I fought them. I got a lawyer. A civilian lawyer. And... and we... we fought them.

And... and eventually... eventually they just... they just wanted me gone. So they... they let me retire. But... but they made it clear. They made it clear that... that if I spoke up... if I... if I told anyone what I knew... that... that accidents happen.

Lisa: But you are speaking up now. You are... you are telling your story. Why... why now? What changed?

William: Because... because I’m tired. I’m tired of running. I’m tired of... of being afraid. And... and because... because I look around... and I see... I see it happening everywhere. I see... I see the politicians. I see the... the Hollywood people. I see... I see the same symbols. The same... the same coded language.

And... and I see the kids. The missing kids. The... the trafficking rings. It’s... it’s exploding. It’s... it’s everywhere. And... and nobody is doing anything. Nobody is... is stopping it.

So... so I have to do something. Even if... even if it kills me. I have to... I have to try. Because... because those kids... they don’t have a voice. They don’t have... they don’t have anyone fighting for them. I was one of those kids. And... and nobody fought for me. So... so I’m going to fight for them.

Lisa: That is... that is incredibly noble, William. And... and we are going to do everything we can to help you. We are going to... we are going to get this information out there.

I want to... before we wrap up this session... I want to ask you about... about the legal side of things. You mentioned... you mentioned an affidavit earlier. Are you... are you willing to sign a sworn statement? Detailing... detailing the names? The dates? The locations? Everything you’ve told me?

William: Yes. Yes, absolutely. I will sign whatever you need me to sign. I will... I will go on record. I will... I will testify in court. I will... I will do whatever it takes.

I’ve already... I’ve already written some of it down. I have... I have journals. I have... I have notes. From... from over the years. Whenever... whenever I would remember something... I would write it down. So... so I have... I have a lot of it documented already.

Lisa: That is... that is huge. That is... that is evidence. Real evidence. We need to... we need to get copies of that. We need to... to secure that. Because... because that is... that is dangerous information to have.

William: I know. I know. That’s why... that’s why I have it hidden. I have it... I have it in a safe place. A place that... that nobody knows about. Not even... not even my family.

But... but I’ll get it to you. I’ll... I’ll make copies. And... and I’ll send them to you.

Lisa: Okay. Good. Good. We’ll... we’ll work out the logistics of that later. Off... off the recording. For security.

Is there... is there anything else? Anything else you want to say today? Before we... before we stop?

William: Just... just that... people need to wake up. They need to... they need to open their eyes. Because... because this isn’t... this isn’t a conspiracy theory. This isn’t... this isn’t a movie. This is real. This is happening. Right under our noses.

And... and the people involved... they are... they are powerful. They are... they are wealthy. But... but they are not... they are not invincible. They bleed... just like us. And... and they fear... they fear the light. That’s why... that’s why they operate in the shadows.

So... so let’s turn on the lights. Let’s... let’s shine a spotlight on them. And... and watch them scurry. Like cockroaches.

Lisa: Amen to that. Amen. Thank you, William. Thank you for... for your courage. And... and for trusting me with this.

William: Thank you, Lisa. Thank you for listening.

Lisa: Okay, we are back on record. It is... uh... August 2nd, 2025. I am here again with William Sasha Riley. William, how are you feeling today after our last session?

William: I’m... I’m okay. A little... little shaky. It’s hard to... to bring this stuff up. It’s like... like reopening a wound that never really healed. You know? But... I went to the storage unit. I got the... the journals.

Lisa: You did? That’s... that’s incredible. Do you have them with you?

William: Yeah. Yeah, they’re right here. This stack. Some of them are... are just spiral notebooks. Some are... are written on napkins. Or... or receipts. Whatever I had... whatever I had at the time.

I started writing... I think I started writing in... in 2012. After... after I left Fort Carson. When... when the flashbacks really started getting bad. I thought... I thought I was going crazy. So I... I wrote it down. To prove... to prove to myself that it was real.

Lisa: And what... what sort of things are in there? Have you looked through them recently?

William: I... I tried. Last night. But I couldn’t... I couldn’t read much of it. It’s... it’s dark, Lisa. It’s... it’s really dark.

There’s... there’s a list. In this blue one here. A list of... of names. People I saw. People... people “Mother” talked about. People... people The Doctor worked with.

Lisa: Can we... are you comfortable going through some of those names? Or... or reading some of the entries?

William: Yeah. Yeah, I can do that. Let me just... let me find the page.

Here. This one. This was... this was from a party in... in D.C. I think it was... it was 2004? No, wait. This was earlier. This was... this was before the Army. So maybe... maybe ‘99? Or 2000?

It says... “The Senator brought the... the wine.” That was code. “Wine” was... was blood. They... they would drink it. From... from a chalice. A golden chalice. And... and the Senator... he was... he was the one serving it.

Lisa: Which Senator, William? Does it say?

William: It just says “Senator B.” But I remember him. He had... he had white hair. Thick white hair. And... and a Southern accent. Not... not like deep South. But... but distinct.

He... he used to talk about... about “cleansing.” About... about how the world needed... needed a flood. To... to wash away the... the weak. And... and he looked at us... at the kids... like we were... like we were the flood. Or... or the sacrifice to stop it. I don’t know.

Lisa: “Senator B.” Okay. We can... we can try to cross-reference that. What else?

William: There’s... there’s an entry here about... about “The Nursery.”

Lisa: The Nursery? What was that?

William: It wasn’t... it wasn’t for babies. It was... it was where they kept the... the new ones. The ones they had just... just taken. They... they had to break them in. You know?

It says... “The Nursery is quiet today. Too quiet. They took... they took the twins.”

I remember those twins. A boy and a girl. They were... they were beautiful. Blond hair. Blue eyes. They looked like... like angels. And... and they took them. To... to the “Red Room.”

Lisa: The Red Room? Was that... was that a specific room in the facility?

William: Yeah. It was... the walls were painted red. So... so the blood wouldn’t show. That’s what... that’s what The Doctor said. “It’s easier to clean if... if you can’t see the mess.”

They... they used the twins for... for a ritual. A specific one. On... on Halloween. They called it... “Samhain.” They... they believed that... that on that night... the... the veil is thin. And... and if they... if they sacrificed the “purest” blood... they could... they could summon... something.

Lisa: Summon what? A demon?

William: Entities. Forces. I don’t know what you want to call them. But... but the room... the room would get cold. Freezing cold. And... and the lights would flicker. And... and you could hear... you could hear voices. Not... not human voices.

And the people... the participants... they would get... they would get high off of it. It was like... like a drug to them. The energy. The... the fear. They... they fed on it.

Lisa: That is... that is terrifying. And you witnessed this? You saw this happen to the twins?

William: I... I was forced to watch. They... they taped my eyelids open. Like... like in that movie. A Clockwork Orange. They... they wanted me to see. They said... “Witness the power.”

And... and I couldn’t look away. I... I saw... I saw them...

Lisa: It’s okay. You don’t... you don’t have to describe the details if you can’t.

William: No. No, I have to. I have to say it. Because... because nobody else will.

They... they skinned them. Alive.

Lisa: Oh my god.

William: And... and they wore... they wore the skin. Like... like masks. The Senator. And... and The Doctor. And... and another man. A man from... from the Church. A priest. Or... or a bishop. He was wearing... he was wearing his robes. His... his religious robes. While he did it.

Lisa: A Catholic priest?

William: I think so. He had the... the collar. But... but his robes were... were embroidered with... with symbols. Inverted crosses. And... and pentagrams. It was... it was a mockery. A mockery of... of everything holy.

Lisa: Do you... do you remember his name? Or... or where he was from?

William: “Father John.” That’s what they called him. But... but I think he was... he was high up. Maybe... maybe from the Vatican. He spoke... he spoke Latin. During the... during the ritual.

He was the one... he was the one who... who gave the final blow. With a... with a silver knife.

Lisa: Jesus. William... I... I don’t even know what to say.

William: There’s nothing to say. There’s only... there’s only action. We have to... we have to stop them. Because... because they’re still doing it. I know they are. I can... I can feel it.

Every... every Halloween. Every... every solstice. They... they gather. And... and more kids... more kids disappear. And... and the world... the world just keeps turning. Like... like nothing happened.

Lisa: We’re going to... we’re going to use this. We’re going to use these journals. This is... this is corroboration. We can look up... we can look up missing persons reports. For twins. Around that time. 1999? 2000?

William: Yeah. Around then. It was... it was near... near D.C. Or... or Virginia. Somewhere... somewhere in that area. Because... because we drove... we drove past the... the monuments. I remember seeing... seeing the Washington Monument. From the car window.

Lisa: Okay. That gives us... that gives us a location. And a timeframe. And... and a description. That’s... that’s a start.

Are you... are you okay to keep going? Or do you want to... do you want to take a break?

William: No. Let’s... let’s keep going. I want to... I want to get this out. All of it. Before... before I lose my nerve.

William: Wait a minute... No, Battery Commander... Balis... Michael... B-A-L-I-S...

Lisa: Okay.

William: First name Michael, middle initial R, and then Junior. And unfortunately this is the newer NCOER... 4561.

Lisa: Okay.

William: And the Commander at that time... I thought it was Captain Colasanto... but the commander who I don’t remember talking to... that was Captain Mendenhall. Ryan L.

Lisa: Mendenhall? What’s the spelling?

William: M-E-N-D-E-N-H-A-L-L and Ryan is spelled R-Y-A-N middle initial L... last four of the social is 1124.

Lisa: Okay.

William: So to be a little more helpful for the dates... the date of my NCOER was 2010... September 21st of 2010.

Lisa: September 21st 2010.

William: Yes. So I would have been talked... I would have talked to him about it probably within the year prior to that date. Sometime within the year prior to that date.

Lisa: So year prior to the date. So 2009.

William: Yes. Sometime within that year because a rated... a rating period is for one year.

Lisa: Okay. Okay. So um... in terms of what I was going to... um... record in terms of what we can look at as... as another audio file. What I just recorded now I’ll just... um... so we’ll start the sort of... like in terms of witness testimony right here cause I just want to be careful about what we publish about those individuals right now cause we want to see about talking to them.

William: Right. Right.

Lisa: So today is July 19th 2025... and we’re continuing with interviews from yesterday... during July 19th 2025... And um... I wanted to just recap what we had spoken about... about the girls. So there was 10 to 12 films... one snuff film we spoke about yesterday... converse about yesterday. There’s one more circumstance similar where you were there when the girls were killed after the filming. There were at least two girls that were killed. Was this same MO? They were shot in the head?

William: I didn’t witness that. The... and I didn’t know that it was coming. Um... we completed filming... uh... then the girls... they said hey... y’all come with us... you help pack up the equipment or clean up or do something... you know in reference to me.

And there were... there was another person in there with me... besides the girls. And... I could hear a gunshot. But I didn’t... I wasn’t witness to it. It was outside. And... I can remember the other person saying just focus on what we’ve got to do... that’s not us or not you or whatever like that. So... you know I can remember wondering if... if it was going to be my turn next or whatever but... you know... as far as... uh... you know witnessing it or or knowing what happened after or how they disposed of ‘em... I don’t... I don’t know any of that.

Lisa: And you said... you thought they were silencing the the girls and the girls were under 13.

William: Well... in in the brothels Samantha had talked about... uh... that they only use the girls for a certain amount of time because after a period of time where they kind of become cognizant that they weren’t going to really ever rise above that... um... because the way that they would sell it to the girls is... hey... you know we’re going to clean you up and make you beautiful and you’ll be around these rich people and... you know they like young women... so if you can be what they want... then perhaps you’ll go off and live in a mansion with one of these rich people.

But that facade or that lie or whatever only survives for so long because they’re they’re horribly abused and things like that and after a period of time they just kind of become aware that this is their station in life... they’re never going to be... I guess the arm candy of one of those rich people flying on Lear jets... you know?

And what the way that Samantha described it is... once they get to that level of consciousness they have... uh... they have passed their expiration date. So they would only use the girls for a certain amount of time and... you know if they were either recruiting or finding... I don’t know how they got the girls... you know... but I can remember even in the brief period of time that I was there because I wasn’t there for more or longer than just a few months... you know maybe even maybe even just like a couple of months... but even in that small period of time I probably saw... one two three four... five people killed.

Lisa: Five killed during two months.

William: Yes. Yes. Uh... I saw Sarah die... uh... she was there when... or I was there when she died. Um... Samantha killed another one of the girls... that was... uh... that was at... she I think she just killed her because she kept causing problems to be honest with you.

Um... and then the two... which I believe it was two it may have been one it could have been three I wouldn’t swear... you know on the number but I believe it was two and that one shoot... and then the one girl that was killed during the filming. It was... she was killed on film. While the while the cameras were rolling.

Lisa: Yeah. And then Sarah was committing suicide... you said?

William: Yes. Yes.

Lisa: And Patricia to terrorize you.

William: Yes.

Lisa: So those were additional killings on top of the five during the two months?

William: Well let me let me count again. So it’s Sarah... the two... oh there’s another one that I saw killed too.

Lisa: So Sarah... which was sort of more of a suicide... but then Samantha pulled the trigger... right?

William: Yes.

Lisa: And then one other time where... uh... one of the girls was executed in the brothel. And that was in front of all of us.

William: So one of the girls was executed in the brothel. And did you say that Samantha did the execution? Did they force Samantha to do the execution or no?

William: Two... two separate instances. The one girl that was executed I did not know her... uh... I don’t know if I ever even hardly spoken to her but she uh... was killed as some sort of retaliation. It... uh... somebody was beating Samantha and I got involved in it and again it was one of those people that you couldn’t touch... so they came and they they didn’t kill me they didn’t kill Samantha they killed this other girl. And I don’t even think she had anything to do with it.

Was that the one in the brothel? That was one of the ones in the brothel yes. And then Samantha killed this other girl just because she... uh... she had beat up one of the other girls and she kept stealing stuff and she kept like trying to cause problems with the people running it... and she just she murdered her.

Lisa: Okay. So that was even separate of all of that. So and I you know I’m I’m thinking of more and more... but... all of these things are kind of compartmentalized a little bit so I’m thinking okay this happened that... you know?

Lisa: It’s okay. Well it’s... I understand... you know there’s there’s a lot. You’ve been through a lot and you’re trying to diligently remember and... you know... remembering... you’ll probably remember a lot more and you know how I’m making sure is is comfortable... you know so is... you know.

Lisa: So there was during the two months there was at least five girls killed. And the killings were all related to the Trump Epstein pedophile ring. There was executions snuff film silencing the girls.

William: Now at that brothel I never saw anybody except this big bellied... hillbilly that ran it. Yeah. Um... and then one other... uh... I don’t know who you call him... some some mobster. That was the one that came in and shot the... uh... kind of terrorized all of us pointed the gun at all of us and then just shot kind of one girl at random.

Lisa: Okay. A mobster.

William: Yeah. And I don’t... I have no idea who he was. Just some older guy... you know gray hair... um... pinky ring type person you know.

Lisa: And when the two girls were killed after the filming... tell me again what the other individual said to you... that you’re good they won’t kill you boys are hard to find.

William: Yes just... like I was working maybe packing up stuff or cleaning or I I don’t remember exactly what I was doing but I remember that I want to say we were breaking down the stuff that they had used to to film it... and when I heard the gunshot... you know I stopped working... and the guy was basically to the effect of... this doesn’t concern you just focus on what you’re doing. You know so I just I kept doing whatever it was I was doing.

Lisa: And he said boys are hard boys are hard to find... you you’re good boys are hard to find.

William: Yeah he said he said you’re good... uh... girls are a dime a dozen boys are hard to find. Something like that. That may not have been the exact words but it was something to that effect.

Lisa: Yeah. So it sounds like in the case with the Trump Epstein ring in terms of whoever they thought was expendable disposable... the the girls that were under the ages of 13 years old that were considered... would you say it was more about were they financially poor... did they and they would just dispose of them as they got older more aware.

William: Yes. Yes. Once once kind of the gig was up where they they they knew that the lies that they were being told weren’t ever going to materialize... that that that that no matter what they did for these rich people they were just being used... Yeah. Um... they didn’t want them around to kind of spoil the ones that still believed in the narrative because the way that was to try to get the girls to be enthusiastic willing participants... you know... for these rich people. And once they had reached a certain level of trauma... then there were they they then they just kind of had no use for ‘em.

Lisa: Okay. So from your experience all the girls that you were exposed to during those particular two months... they all died.

William: Yes. Yeah. All of the ones that I made any kind of a... uh... closer connection with... they all died. Now I may have had... uh... I know there’s not even any may to it... I had connections with more people that I don’t have... uh... didn’t make as much of a concrete memory with... and I couldn’t tell you uh what what transpired after you know the two months that I was there or if they some of them made it or ran away or escaped or I I have no idea what happened to the rest. But there were always... go go ahead.

Lisa: That was specifically is that that was specifically when you were at the brothel during those two months?

William: Yes. Okay.

Lisa: And when you first met Trump you were about eight or nine and then the last the last incident with Trump you said was when you were 12 or 13. That’s correct?

William: As far as I know. I I wouldn’t swear it could have been a more compressed time frame say 9 to just 11... but within those years are all that I remember. Around 8 to probably 12 or 13. Yeah. Um... but there’s a chance that it ended even before the the 13 year mark. But it it would definitely be within that time period. Because beyond that my life kind of changed a little bit and there wasn’t... after that incident incident with Andy Biggs... I I do not have any recollection of either being abused by anyone outside the family or any of those rich people. I had no more connection with with any of that moving forward that I can recall.

Lisa: Okay. And where did where did you go then after that period of time? Were you still with Marie Lynn and William Kyle?

William: Oh. Okay so after Tennessee after the films... Yeah. When we moved to Alabama... there was a a and I couldn’t even tell you for how long but there was a period of time where I was taken away from them... uh... placed into some sort of foster care... uh... but I eventually once the the investigations into to their activity petered out... uh... I eventually made my way back into their house. Yeah. Okay.

Lisa: Okay. Um... is there anything else you think would be helpful for for us to converse about during during this recording?

William: Not that I’m not that I’m remembering at this time. You know... even even some of this in my own mind I can’t tell you which thing happened before the other thing. I haven’t... you know like some of it’s chronological in my memory but I can’t tell you ex... I I am pretty sure we still lived in Tennessee when they sent me to the brothel. And that’s where I met Samantha... that’s where I met Patricia and and Sarah. Sarah died at the brothel I never saw obviously her again. But then Patricia I saw it would have been months or a year later or whatever... at that party. Yeah. Samantha was already dead at that point. So and then Patricia died at that party.

Lisa: So Samantha was already dead. Sarah died and then Samantha and then Patricia.

William: Yes. Okay.

Lisa: And I can just I can because I could just remember when Patricia died... I kind of changed something inside of me. And in in that in my mind I had just kind of lost my only friend or my last remaining friend... and in in my reasoning there’s no one left but me. Meaning that the next person they’re going to kill is me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. There’s um... Yeah. Gosh. Gosh or golly. You know that’s uh... horrific circumstances.

William: Yeah.

Lisa: Um... I thought there was another...

William: And you know like like a lot of these girls that just come up missing... that’s where they go man. They’re in that type of a a situation until you know they take a back hoe and bury ‘em out out in some farm or or some other place. You know? And it sad to say that but it’s it’s the truth.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

William: And I remember that Samantha went by... she’s the only one that I that I ever heard a last name... and uh I believe she went by Samantha Jackson. And the police did run her name through there at least they said they did and it did not match a missing person for uh for their database. So it I mean I don’t know if that was her real name... it’s just something she went by. But I do know that that I can remember her recalling uh or recall uh... talking to me about just don’t ever kill somebody for these people because then they own you. And that was part of her problem is that she had they had used her to kill somebody and so she figured no matter what she was screwed.

Lisa: Mmhmm. Did Trump ever visit the brothel or Trump was usually at the parties on the farms?

William: Just at the parties. I I don’t I couldn’t tell you who all went in there. Yeah. I just remember Lynn dropping me off for there... and just telling me how horrible it was going to be the whole trip... and you know I stayed there for however long and then she came to pick me up. They she got some money but it wasn’t very much and she got angry... and whoever was running it just kind of laughed in her face because you know they said what are you going to do take us to small claims court... you know? Yeah.

Lisa: And what year did Lynn commit suicide again? Marie Lynn? 1980... 1980s?

William: No no no. It was... hold on I can tell you. Just a minute. Uh... Wait a minute. No that’s not her. Thank you. No that’s not her either. Let me put in Texas that might help. Ah there we go. Yeah I’ll send you a picture too.

Lisa: Sure that’s helpful.

William: Um let’s see 2018. Uh let’s see... She passed away peacefully during the night at her home in Johnson City Texas July 28th 2018. And what I had heard is that she took a bunch of sleeping pills and washed it down with some Jack Daniels. Hmm. But I don’t have the uh you know her autopsy report or anything like that. But here I’ll send you her picture as well.

Lisa: Sure. I saw William Kyle’s Facebook profile posted a lot of pictures of cruise ship travel.

William: So... um...

Lisa: I’m just going to pause recording here right now.

William: ...don’t mind at all.

Lisa: Okay. So I’m recording right now. So yeah. Looks like... um... so there’s obviously a lot of activity. I’ve seen there’s some reports that... um... they’re really trying to push... Lindsay Graham was... was asking for a special counsel to get appointed to investigate Obama for treason.

So seems to me like... you know what Lisa was... what we were speaking about yesterday... you know the very fundamental question is what sort of crimes are the Republicans willing to attempt to commit to try to squash this story?

William: Well it doesn’t seem like there’s anything that’s off the... off the table. Um... you know if... if... and this is just speculation you know I’ve I’ve read things that suggest it but I... I wouldn’t present it as fact... but IF they have already used the system to silence Epstein... then you would have to make the logical conclusion that there is no... there is no barrier... you know for them other than what they believe they may get away with.

That would... you know that... that would just be where I would... where I would be from a... a logic standpoint if... if I were... you know if I were questioned on what I thought.

Lisa: Yeah I understand. So let’s sort of run through a few things. So I spoke... I called the... the federal RCMP yesterday and unfortunately they just referred me back to a local... to the local police here which they can only really do anything if it is tied to Vancouver Island. And the only way it could seem like it’s tied to Vancouver Island if there’s like you know some sort of threat or something.

That being said I did have a long conversation with the police officer who had some interesting feedback. And... um... A... um... towards the end of the discussion the officer said... well the officer mainly said what the officer needs is even to to write up an investigation to get referred to their intel department and then to the right agency... they need some corroborative... not so much evidence in the films but just reports like you know do you have a copy of your your military... the years you were in the military do you have any copies of the CPS reports and stuff because they have some of those documents they can include then to write up so then goes into their intel department and off to the right agency.

William: Okay.

Lisa: So that’s what I sent you... um... an email of but I we can talk about that in a minute cause I think there’s some optics there we want to be careful how we’re asking those questions right? In terms of any flags.

So but then the officer... the officer A the officer offered to store the audio securely and B the officer offered to listen to the audio while... you know I said and what about when we get some of these documents what can the officer look at?

And the officer said then... you know then the officer can write up a longer police report with something that sort of corroborates... um... and by corroborate I’m not talking about like the films or anything just like some starting point in terms of an investigation to refer to their intel group and then to another agency whether it’s like a... you know regarding national security or whatever. So...

William: I have an idea.

Lisa: Yeah.

William: All right. So in 1989 I was... uh... housed at a... uh... behavioral hospital in Alabama. It’s called... uh... Charter Woods Memorial Hospital or Mental Hospital I’m not sure. Um... my parents had accused me of being on drugs. So I wasn’t. Not... not that I... not at that point in in my life I have experimented with drugs since but not as a child. Uh not willingly as a child.

So anyway that would have been the first time that I talked about Donald Trump specifically by name. So I’m gonna go there as soon as I get my bike back it could be as early as tomorrow but I’ll take a little road trip and see if I can’t get that paperwork. The hospital itself has been closed down but as I understand it all medical records have to be stored in the... uh... medical archives and I forget which city that’s in but it’s Alabama’s not very far from me so I’ll take a trip down there and see if I can retrieve those because that in my mind is the best connection that I have because I mentioned him by name. That was the first time that I did that.

Lisa: Yeah. Okay so that’s that’s great. Now the... I think with the information if you can’t get from them I know you can file a Freedom of Information Act request. My only concern was that we really look at if you suddenly start filing all these requests on police reports and CPS reports would that flag anything?

And I don’t want to talk to any journalists that I don’t... to get them to flag. I was hoping police requests and I’m even looking carefully at you know how could I look at requesting or can I do so somehow anonymously. So that’s what I’m trying to sort of sort a bit there.

What the... what else... now that’s that would be extremely helpful information obviously those reports. But the other reports are really important cause there’s police... you know cause wasn’t didn’t you said there was a police report filed regarding the complaint to Samantha regarding Samantha?

William: Oh yeah. There was a whole investigation that involved the FBI and the local police because when they first got her the only thing she had was like a... uh... little plastic bag of... uh... like one change of clothes.

So we went and... and in the beginning they weren’t... you know hurting her. They just had us both there. Um... and there was a witness at the shoe store that we went to... um... that that remembered both of us because you know we were kids and and I it it was her being a black girl and me being a a white kid it was it was just something that stood out to the... uh... to the witness there. She was a slender black lady. And she I know she was part of the investigation cause she thought something was fishy even in the store. Um... just the way that Lynn was acting. Lynn was the one that actually took us out to get these clothes.

Um... but yes there was an investigation and nothing came out of it. But there was there was it was more than just a like a welfare check or something like that. They came and did a a full investigation. They did find blood in the room that we were being stored in and I was as a result of that investigation turned into CPS again. So...

Lisa: And that was your second time with CPS?

William: Oh it was at least the third time. I had been referred to CPS that that would have been in Alabama. I had already been referred to CPS in Tennessee in during the year that we lived there and I had been referred into the CPS system in Texas. So Texas Tennessee and Alabama I was referred into the CPS system and then in Florida at the beach incident at the Riptide uh uh area that generated another investigation.

The the sheriff came down did a uh uh witness statements and all of that from the guy that fished me out of off off the sandbar and brought me in... um... they did interviews and then we left uh from the beach went home and the sheriff in Alabama came and talked to my dad. So there there it was a a cross both of those uh states. So there was at least a precursory investigation even if it all that was was a welfare check but it went through the uh um the sheriff’s office the police station there in New Brockton Alabama.

Lisa: Let me ask you a question. When the investigation when they found blood in the room where you and Samantha were were held... did they did they experience awareness Samantha had died or had Samantha’s body been moved already so they were investigating...

William: They were investigating Samantha’s body had already been moved. And the only thing that they had was the one eyewitness account and what they told the police was that she was a runaway that they took in for a period of time and then she ran back away. That’s what they told the police.

Lisa: So they never even saw Samantha’s body.

William: No. No. As far as I know it’s never been recovered.

Lisa: So Samantha’s body was never recovered. Gosh.

William: As far as I know it has not been. Um... but that blood in that room was from her. Cause that was the thing it did not match any of us. And it was hers.

Lisa: Now um let’s see so Samantha’s body wasn’t recovered there was an full investigation and you said you told the FBI what you remembered or you told the police that...

William: I told the police many many years later.

Lisa: Many years later. Oh okay. But not right then. Many years later. Okay. So let’s just jump forward a bit in terms of you told the police when you filed your police or FBI reports?

William: Yes.

Lisa: So what years did you file those reports?

William: Would have been around 2021. 2020 maybe.

Lisa: 2020 2021.

William: Yes.

Lisa: Okay. So and then you told the police.

William: Yes. I said and and you know I I really tried to stick with the things that could be verified like going back and looking at the investigations and stuff like that. I remember more stuff that that you can’t get anything to really corroborate. So I just tried to focus on okay well I know this generated a police report I remember this generated a police report so I just stuck to those things as which was kind of the same thing that I did with with you. You know? Um now I don’t actually have those police reports but they should exist.

Lisa: Yeah and those again are ones that you can request copies of those police reports or FBI reports. And that’s one of the questions the the constable asked me and I think it’s helpful just in terms of perceptually. The constable said well why don’t you have copies of the police reports? And I said well I would ask you. That that’s you know early in our discussions.

Um let me ask you a question when you got the police reports and so on that was 2020 2021. I mean I know that when I filed complaints you don’t usually get a copy right away you have to request the report. Right? So when you filed those reports did they what’s the standard in the United States? Did they offer you copies? Is it just assumed that you would have to request an a copy of those reports? Um...

William: I I can go I mean Lawton is just thirty some something miles away I can go and and request you know the disposi- uh the disposition of that case I’m sure it’s been closed. Um but I can go request it.

Lisa: Yeah okay and I...

William: I can do that one just uh just I don’t think that that would raise any red flags. Let me let me see. Let me go tomorrow and and and see if I can get a copy of that one. That one might be the the easiest the most attainable one for me to get right now. I don’t have to cross any state lines or anything to go get that.

Lisa: So and the Lawton one is from 2020 2021ish?

William: Yes. I I could be wrong on that I just I’m I’m in my mind I’m thinking I I still had my Jeep. So that would have been around that time cause I was trying to remember what vehicle I drove.

Lisa: And that was the first time as an adult that you’d filed police report right?

William: Let me uh... yes.

Lisa: Okay. And did you file an FBI report during the same year or...

William: I reached out to the FBI and spoke to them on uh first through social media and then uh we did a follow-on uh back and forth. But but that was it. I never went to like the FBI building and sat down and gave a deposition or anything like that.

His response was just go to the local police and that would that should trigger a larger scale investigation so that’s what I did. Um to the best of my recollection I I reached out to the FBI in the beginning because I knew that the FBI had been involved in the one in uh Alabama in that investigation in Alabama with uh in regards to Samantha and also they were involved in the uh investigation that landed uh the parents of the girl that I did the one movie with in Tennessee in jail. I know that the FBI was involved in that one as well. So I figured they were as the larger scale operation they would be the ones to go to but they then referred me back down to the local police.

Lisa: Sort of what occurred with me yesterday when I was trying to get in touch with somebody more in international policing with the RCMP. They they seem to whatever their sort of procedures are they seem to sometimes get a little caught up in following procedures instead of thinking like of the specifics of each case so... I understand.

So okay so you talked to the FBI they told you to go to the police. You filed the police report and you can get a copy of the report in Lawton. Yes. Now I’ll do that tomorrow. Okay so Friday. Will you just sort of like just let’s sort of set a sort of standard about check in with me morning and evening wellness checks okay? I would just feel better.

William: Yeah. Absolutely. I will get you that that the the DD214 I’ll get you that in the next few minutes here.

Lisa: So DD214, police report, paperwork from hospital...

William: Yes.

Lisa: ...looking at Fort the army buddies Fort Carson army buddies.

William: Yes.

Lisa: And while we’re sort of sorting out in terms of all of the other police reports you mentioned in... would you be mentioned in the report where um the other girl’s parents were charged?

William: Yes. Yes. Because they investigated my parents. They they knew it was me in the video they just didn’t have enough uh evidence to convict my parents. They got the girl’s parents because even though they were careful not to show the faces of us uh the children in the in the film they had enough identifying features of the house of the basement where we filmed the film. And it was uh it was the uh the house of the parents of the girl is where we filmed it.

Lisa: Okay. So those yeah so those are really important reports to get but we’ve got to figure out how to get those safely because those could certainly if there’s a bunch of those that you request they could get flagged I need to sort of simmer about cause there’s all request that we should be getting all of those in I’ll um but maybe starting with that report I’ll just see figure out yeah let’s kind of noodle a bit about getting those safely. Because it’s simple enough to request the reports I just don’t want you to request the reports although sometimes they can get them you can get them faster in terms of victim reports but would just be really careful.

William: ...the effect of causing that... that was just some sort of a... a special degree of just... horrible person, you know?

Lisa: Yeah. That’s like... um... in terms of extremity of malevolent, psychopathic, sadistic... So... so they shot Patricia in the torso first? And do you remember the description of the... the gentleman? The gentleman who was like shuffling on his feet and was uncomfortable about how much Patricia was suffering getting tortured?

William: I... I wish I could give you a better description but just... five or six... uh... pot-bellied hillbillies. You know, you... kind of if you... if you looked at older pictures of my dad, they just kind of looked like him. Just... larger, thick people. Not... not necessarily fat, not necessarily... what you would think of as like a... a... you know, a country boy. A big country boy. You know, beards and a little bit of hair... um... just... thick. Five-foot-ten to six-foot-one... you know... bigger 235, 250 pound guys.

Lisa: So... just larger country boys. And I couldn’t even tell you like their... their facial features or anything like that. I just... I can remember at least some had facial hair, beards, mustaches, that sort of thing. And just... larger people dressed in what you would consider just kind of... country music type of attire.

William: Yeah. Boots and... and blue jeans and... you know, button-up uh... cowboy type shirts. That... that’s what all of them looked like.

Lisa: Okay. So when they... they had guns. You said you remembered one and then two or three... maybe four of them had guns. One of them shot Patricia in the chest. They tortured and raped Patricia. The one hillbilly was uncomfortable and said just end it... to kill Patricia. But they... how... how long did they continue torturing Patricia before they shot Patricia in the head?

William: If I had to guess I’d say probably in... in the realm of thirty minutes or so. Uh... I... I can remember that... that one or more of them raped her. Not everybody... wanted to participate in that. And then the one guy just seemed the... of those people, one... only one person really seemed exceptionally uncomfortable about the whole thing and didn’t want to be there.

Lisa: Yeah.

William: And Patricia said... um... Patricia wanted to die? That was what you remember Patricia saying to you? To... to kill Patricia? Like... or that Patricia was just saying...

William: They had... they had beaten her... like... uh... I don’t know if all of them had beaten her but one of them beat her... uh... hit her really hard in like the ribs and things like that. And she was having trouble breathing. And I... in my estimation I think she already knew that they were going to kill her. And she just said “Please just kill me.” Something to that effect.

And... and I can remember looking at her and saying “Baby you’re going to come be with me right now.” And she looked at me and she smiled. And... I said “I love you.” And she... one of them shot her. And... she was having trouble... I said “Just look at me. Don’t look at them.” And the other guy... he was... he was breaking down. That guy that I’m telling you was shuffling on his feet... um... he said “Just fucking end it” or “Just shoot her in the fucking head.” Whatever he said. Because he was... he was not enjoying it. Like... like the guy that was... doing the... I guess you just call it torture.

Lisa: Yeah.

William: So... um... after that he shot her in the head. And then I can remember them arguing... “Well why did you shoot her there? Because now we have to find another mattress. You... you fucking idiot” or whatever he called him. And... uh... and you know the way that those people talk he’s like... you know, “Shut your mouth or we’ll be getting rid of two bodies” or something. You know... uh... that may not have been the exact conversation but that was the... the mood of it and kind of the... the information that was getting... uh... passed back. You know?

And then... they wrapped her up in a sheet. Took her out. And then... I think there was some discussion as to whether or not they could just put a sheet over the mattress but there was obviously... there was blood on it. They said no. So they rolled up the mattress or... or did whatever they... they... they did with the mattress... and then went and found another one. And... uh... that’s how that went. It was just... it wasn’t a big bed. It wasn’t like a queen size bed. The way I remember it it was just like a twin bed.

Lisa: And then Trump came in the room.

William: Yes.

Lisa: Now... in terms of... you said you didn’t remember if there was any cameras. That... was... was Patricia getting killed filmed? Do you remember seeing any cameras at all?

William: I do not remember seeing any cameras at that time. So if there was a way to record it... um... there wasn’t any... we went into that room alone not knowing that... you know... it was going to get... uh... interrupted. Right. And so there were no cameras or anything that we were... unless there was some sort of a mirror, two-way mirror and something set up behind it... uh that’s possible... that it was... it was being filmed without our knowledge but no. As far as do I know if there was any... any way to record that... uh... I don’t think so.

Lisa: Do you remember whether there was any sort of...

William: I think it would have been... oh I’m sor- I’m sorry... but i- i- it locked from a... from a logic perspective I don’t think it would have been recorded because those... those six people were in that room too. So five, six, four... however many it was. I think it was five or six. Um... they would have been in the... in in... it wasn’t a particularly big room. It wasn’t like a main room. It was like a... guest room with a... you know an individual bed. Um... so it... it... in my mind I would doubt that that was filmed because it would have had those people that murdered her on... on... in the... in the frame too.

Whereas when they shot that girl... uh... in that separate instance in the... in the film shoot... you know the cameras were pointed to us... uh... in the bed. And then the person came in and shot her from... like you couldn’t see the person shooting from the... the person who fired the shot from the... the film. You just know she got shot.

Lisa: Yeah. So in the room was there somewhere there... where there might have been a... a peephole?

William: There could have been. That... I mean... that’s possible. If... if somebody was just watching. Maybe even... Trump himself. Like I... I... he wasn’t there for any of that initial part. He just came in after.

Lisa: Yeah. And you said your sense... what they had said... what they tried to convey to you is that... they knew Trump was coming in the room after. Like Trump had hired them to...

William: Yes. Pointed the gun at me... and said “There’s gonna be an old boy comes in here... you know, real southern drawl... there’s gonna be an old boy comes in here... you gonna do whatever he says or I’m gonna put a bullet in you too.” And he called me something... little... hillbilly fuck or whatever he... whatever he called... and that was the one that had killed Patricia. And he was smiling. So it wasn’t... he wasn’t trying... you know... uh... I just remember how much pleasure he took in... in the... kind of the horror of the situation.

Lisa: Yeah. Well I’m trying to just get a sense in terms of... cause seems obviously of... that... that obviously they knew about Trump. That... that Trump wouldn’t just like stand in the hallway and cool... cool his heels. Was the sort of situation... like from what you’ve described... what I know of... and what I know of Trump that... Trump would have wanted to hear what was going on? Or watch?

William: That’s possible. I can’t remember the exact layout of the room. And... you know it felt like I...

Lisa: Or that Trump just wanted... yeah. Or Trump just wanted you terrorized when Trump came into the room later?

William: Definitely wanted me afraid. There’s... there’s no doubt about that. And if... if that was to do with his... his desire to make the... the... the experience as horrible for me as possible... or whether that was from his psyche to give him some protection because... uh... I was kind of already known... I... I think at that point as being somebody that would fight back to the best of my ability. You know? So... it it could have been either... either circumstance. But it was... it was definitely to... to shock, traumatize and... and make me more pliable I guess in... in terms of... of acquiescing to whatever he... he wanted to do.

Lisa: Yeah.

William: And I can just remember thinking I’m gonna kill this son of a bitch if I can just... if I can just get an opportunity. You know it... I’m a child at this point. About... you know... around we’ll say 12 years old. Um... so he is a much larger person than I am and of course 40 years ago he wasn’t feeble. So... you know I was looking for that vulnerable point where I could try to kill him. You know?

Lisa: Well that’s... again that’s... that’s understandable context. You know there’s a lot of... you know... policy, legislation... law per country where... you know... that... that’s a situation... extreme circumstances when you’re... you were acting in self-defense. You had no idea at that point whether they might just come in and kill you right after. They’d said if you didn’t do what... what they called Trump the old... an old boy... what the old boy wanted... that they’d shoot you in the head as well.

William: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah they never... they never said his name. I can tell you that but I recognized him. And then... uh... I didn’t see him until a number of years later on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. I don’t know if you remember that with Robin Leach.

Lisa: Oh yeah.

William: But I saw Trump on one of those episodes and I... you know... that’s I... I knew that was him. So at that time I did not know that this is Donald Trump... it’s just later when I saw him on the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous and I said well... I know that rich asshole. You know because in my mind I... even as a child... you know they they present on TV... you know these these rich people being... you know something that you want to be but from my experience... human beings on planet earth.

Lisa: Yeah. Well you know there are folks that are financially wealthy that aren’t as utterly horrifyingly malevolent.

William: Right. Right.

Lisa: But there are a lot. There... there is obviously a lot. You... you encountered the worst of the worst without question.

William: I... I am hopeful though that they have already made one connection. And if they do any more digging... all they’re going to do is find more connections. Because my dad has been... involved in that sort of activity... um... since at least 1980. You know at least. And probably even a few years before that.

Lisa: Yeah.

William: So we’re talking 45 years. And those paths are going to cross... you know... I know that they’re looking for specific uh... uh... uh... intersections between him and... and Epstein. Which I know exist. Yeah. But he is also going to intersect with many other people that were involved in all of that stuff. Yeah. He was kind of just one of those... being a pilot and being a a former guy that could handle himself... and having his... I’m pretty sure private investigator’s license... and just thinking from my standpoint what that gives you the right to do... like you said... to to initiate investigations, look into databases, also carry a... a... a sidearm. Yeah. Um... so all of those things together... it definitely paints a... a... you know... definitely paints a picture.

Lisa: Yeah. So I... in terms of Ed Opperman I would be careful. I wouldn’t contact him. If Ed contacts you again... is the sort of situation where... um... if you had any idea like in terms of who is corrupt and who isn’t corrupt... it’d be like more like... you know in terms of investigations. I think... what I... I have some contacts in terms of human rights lawyers and so on. And that might be where we find some more Dudley Do-Rights... um... that could help in even in terms of like prosecuting... prosecutors whether the United States and the ICC and so on. Um... there’s one or two Americans that have been involved in civil rights... one involved in civil rights cases that... um... I think... might help. Um... yeah.

William: So... okay day by day... um... I’ll once I get... I’ll get sort of a preliminary list during the next couple of days. And... um... I’ll get the audio files... I’ll get a look at them get them sorted... look at getting them uploaded onto a Proton Drive. And just sort of simmer with things. We can sort of go through the list. I want to just sort of go conversation by conversation in terms of folks I’m waiting for callbacks from... some that might have suggestions in terms of prosecutors here in Canada. And then I just want to make sure in terms of careful contacts with... I don’t want to waste time talking to Americans that... I don’t want to waste time speaking to Americans that say they’re going to behave helpful and that don’t help. It’s... it’s not right. You know.

William: Right. Right.

Lisa: So and I want to be extremely careful in terms of Americans just... you know because of the circumstances. So in your case I think it would be a good idea just prudent just to have a go bag packed. You know just...

William: I always do.

Lisa: Oh good. You know what I would love? If you would send me a... a text or something just with what you generally have in your go bag. Just as... cause I’d... helpful for me for to have a look at just in terms of you know earthquake preparedness and so on stuff I’d love to have a look at what you have packed.

William: It... it’s funny that you say that cause I was just recommending because all of these floods... to some people that they pack one and they were asking me the same thing. And I was just saying hey your... your birth certificate, your social security card... you know your very important papers, your passport. Um... anything that you cannot... uh... re-duplicate. You know for your life. And then... you know like clothes and stuff like that aren’t necessarily that important. You can leave with the clothes on your back and still rebuild. Um... money, jewelry... uh... a firearm if you have one. Yeah. But... that’s... that’s kind of it. I don’t... I don’t have anything sentimental or anything like that. It’s just the... the things... as a matter of fact it’s on my bed right now that’s where I got my paperwork from my... um... uh... to to relay First Sergeant Bayless’s information.

Lisa: Okay.

William: So. Yeah. But I would... uh... I would definitely... I would probably love Canada anyway. You guys are friendly up there. Way more friendly than the...

Lisa: Yeah. A lot of folks that travel here they’re... they’re shocked by how... you know most of the Canadians they come across are like super helpful and... all that good stuff.

William: It used to be that way here in America. It did. It used to be 40... 40, 50 years ago it was an entirely different experience here in America. And it’s just... to be honest with you from somebody that’s been here... uh... almost my whole life it’s absolutely heartbreaking to... to see how... how we’ve been divided. You know? How it’s an us versus them and if you’re on the red team you... you’re bad and if you’re on the blue team you’re... you’re not a patriot and all this bullshit. And... and a lot of it just seems performative anymore from both sides to... to a degree but... Yeah. Uh... one side is definitely if you just look at the money more corrupt. In my opinion. I could be wrong.

Lisa: Yeah. No it’s quite different. It’s quite different indeed. So... okay. Well let’s... you know... radio silence with everyone else. Keep in touch with those Alan Analysis folks... might be interesting. I’ll see about... let’s get a better sense of things about... you know a conversation with them maybe. Like a... you and I and and the folks from Alan... did you talk to anyone at the Crustacean yet?

William: I I have not. I uh... I answered them back but they have not reached back out to me. Um... but the last contact I had with them before I spoke to you was that they were going to go and see if they could make a connection to either William Sasha Riley my legal name now... Manuel Sasha Barros my name before it was changed... or William K Riley. So... uh... through those flight logs. So I don’t know if they are still working that aspect of it or if they have uh... thus far run into a dead end or or what. But uh... I had delayed my reaching back out to them just kind of waiting to see what was gonna transpire uh... here. So that’s that’s where we are with them. So in my mind I was just going to be polite but not give too much information if they did reach back out cause I certainly don’t want to brush them off especially if they’re um... if they’re actively you know pursuing leads and stuff like that. But I wasn’t going to necessarily push forward and you know or or do another interview or anything like that. Not at this time anyway. So that’s kind of where we are with that one. But uh... there were initially four that reached out. You were one of the four. The other two we’ve spoken about in the Crustacean... they have not uh... had further contact.

Lisa: Okay. I think if they follow up just again it’s... I just have a really strong sense that should really be radio silence. Um... I’d really like to see in terms of speaking to some ethical prosecutors or...

William: Sounds good. I definitely appreciate all the... all the follow ups thus far and I’m kind of like I said I’m a little nervous and anxious but... um... as long as this can get peeled back a little bit I feel like we’re going to open the whole can of worms. Good bad or indifferent. You know it’s like somebody said well what if it... you know and this is just online... you know the sentiment from most of the people is if if if this is just going to decimate the entire government well then the entire government needs to be decimated. If if our... if the bulk of our institutions have been serving to use us as slaves and keep it quiet then uh... yeah we need to purge that system. You know? So.

Lisa: Yeah.

William: Uh... there are definitely some influential people though that that’s going to expose that aren’t going to be too terribly happy about it. But I don’t know.

Lisa: Yeah well they don’t have any... they don’t... those perpetrators don’t have any say in in the matter. So.

William: Exactly. Exactly. Well... alright well I appreciate everything. I will... uh... I will be waiting to kind of hear something else and and we’ll take it from there.

Lisa: Sounds good. Enjoy the rest of the day and um... I’ll look forward to checking in soon.

William: You do as well. Thank you.

Lisa: ...especially if they have some sort of alert set up on your name or your parents’ names. You know?

William: Yeah. I understand. I’ll be careful. I’ll stick to the... the lower level stuff first. The... the local police reports. And the... the hospital records. Those seem... those seem safer.

Lisa: Exactly. Start with the low hanging fruit. And... and we can build from there.

Now... I wanted to ask you... you mentioned earlier about... about the other people involved. The ones... the ones you saw at the parties but maybe didn’t... didn’t interact with directly. You said there were... there were others?

William: Yeah. There were... there were a lot of people. It wasn’t just... it wasn’t just the politicians. There were... there were business people. You know? People in... in suits. People that looked like... like bankers. Or... or lawyers.

I remember... I remember this one guy. He was... he was always there. He was short. Balding. He had... he had these thick glasses. And he... he always carried a briefcase. A silver briefcase. And... and he would go into the... the back rooms with... with the organizers. With... with my dad. And... and the others.

I think he was... I think he was the money man. Or... or the fixer. Because... because whenever there was a problem... whenever... whenever someone got hurt... or... or something went wrong... they would call for him. And... and he would... he would smooth it over. He would... he would pay people off. Or... or make phone calls.

Lisa: Do you... do you know his name? Or... or a nickname?

William: They called him... “The Accountant.” That’s... that’s all I ever heard. “Get The Accountant.” “Where’s The Accountant?”

But... but I saw him... I saw him hand... hand stacks of cash to... to the local sheriff one time. In... in Alabama. The sheriff... he just... he just took it. And... and tipped his hat. And... and drove away. Like... like it was nothing.

Lisa: That... that just shows the level of... of corruption. It’s... it’s systemic.

William: It is. It is. It goes... it goes all the way down. And... and all the way up.

That’s why... that’s why I’m... I’m so skeptical. About... about the justice system. About... about anyone actually doing anything. Because... because they’re all... they’re all in on it. Or... or they’re afraid.

Lisa: I know. I know it feels that way. And... and you have every right to be skeptical. But... but there are good people. There are... there are people who... who want to fight this. Who... who are fighting this.

And... and your story... your testimony... it’s... it’s ammunition for them. It’s... it’s the proof they need. To... to break through that... that wall of silence.

William: I hope so. I really do. Because... because I don’t know how much longer... I don’t know how much longer I can... I can carry this. It’s... it’s heavy, Lisa. It’s... it’s so heavy.

Lisa: You don’t have to carry it alone anymore. We’re... we’re helping you carry it now. Okay?

William: Okay. Thank you.

Lisa: Alright. I think... I think we’ve covered a lot for today. I think... I think we should probably... probably stop here. Before... before we both get... get too exhausted.

William: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s a good idea. I’m... I’m pretty wiped out.

Lisa: Okay. So... the plan is... you’re going to... you’re going to look for those records. The hospital records. And... and the police report from Lawton. And... and you’re going to send me the... the DD214.

William: Yes. I’ll do that... I’ll do the DD214 right now. And... and I’ll go to Lawton tomorrow.

Lisa: Perfect. And... and check in. Morning and evening. Just... just a quick text. “I’m okay.” That’s all I need.

William: I will. I promise.

Lisa: Okay. Take care of yourself, William. Get some rest.

William: You too, Lisa. Thank you again.

Lisa: Bye for now.

William: Bye.